++++++++++++++++++++. When I went to the CBE conference in Florida recently, we had communion and the person serving me communion said Julie Anne, this is the Body of Christ. Now, of course, it wasnt as special as Bills because this woman didnt know me except from the weekend, but I noticed how personal it felt. I expect your educated guess is as good as mine, but ISTM you spend 20-25 hours preparing a sermon if youve not much else to do. Most of the congregation will never realize this as they are caught up in the cult of personality. However, I do think it represents something about care and compassion of the sheep and knowing them by name. I think the answer lies in two seemingly unrelated things sometime ~1997 when 9Marks took off and when SGM became Reformed. C.J. But we have some in depth sunday school classes. Lea, A 15th century religious darkness is descending upon McLean Bible Church? 2. a person who protects, guides, or watches over a person or group of people. Suffice to say, God desires a cleaned-up people group, where He can dwell in their midst. We both know the answer, yet dont follow this when we have someone adding their own agenda. one person i talked to went to so far as to say we cant allow this, or else our tax-exempt status would be jeopardized. Maybe it comes from living through two church blow-ups, and narrowly avoiding another, but I am nervous when a church is seen as the focal point of anyones spiritual life. Yes mission is important but it is the means, not the end. Does not. I wish I was left to be a layperson. And when we take the word pastor and make of it a title and paid formal position rather than a gifting useful for service to others (which is all it appears to be in Eph 4), and when that position is essentially that of congregational CEO who is the head motivational speaker and (hopefully benevolent) king to whom all submit (rather than submitting one to another, and ultimately, of course, to Jesus), why are we surprised when we attract to that position those who are nothing more than entrepreneurial CEOs, vapid, idiotic motivational speakers, and little kings and God-haters who demand submission? Thanks, very insightful from your experience with boots on the ground. This happens at my church too and it is lovely. Warning: Calvins ICR is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ, but a clever vicious lie smothering the life out of the Christian believer who seeks to embrace this incessant smoldering darkness. ), Calvinism, it comes from John Calvins Institutes Of The Christian Religion; which is simply regurgitated 4th century Augustinian Gnosticism, a false gospel message. In other words, I am thinking that different people have different needs, and some folks cannot deal with chaos and want rules and procedures and organization and having somebody in charge. They throw that stuff out there expecting the sheeple to believe them. Everyone that knows anything must have taken a vow of silence. Im not sure what title is appropriate for the job hell do there (Lecturer? Ill never make that mistake again. With Mac Brunson you see tweets about Lambert and Mohler and trivializing the impact of Irma on the community while whining about the minor ways it inconvenienced him personally. In fact I sympathise with them to a certain extent, and perhaps I should do so to a greater extent insofar as they not unlike me. Viewing David Platts past online sermon videos smack of the same toxic religious syndrome in store for MBC members as well. It is very sad. We were an all volunteer army. Everything is for show to make the congregation think theres actual ministry going on. And when it goes badly we want to blame the clergy for not being Jesus to us. He also is not going to get a salary for this new position. Like your husband, I am deeply touched when a pastor knows my name & uses it in a kind way. You cant have it both ways and these special privileges may prove to be a future rationalization for government meddling. I dont understand the appeal in attending something like that. I dont remember the details, just that I got the idea that they shouldnt be encouraged to attend and fellowship with the body if theyre not comfortable making a commitment in writing. I dont understand why they want to borrow celebrities. One of the benefits this boundary has brought to our church is that we are very clearly not a pastor-centered church. My guess is theres some bigger strategy going on. Many times the pastor would come over to her home after the Sunday service for coffee, cake and to talk. What next pants down so we can see his undergarments? Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker.). Im a firm believer in Capital Punishment. Isnt all scripture is inspired by God ad profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness in order to do good works (2 Tim 3:17-8)? I met him the first time his visited this spring and he has remembered me and called me by name ever since (something akin didnt do for the 12 years we have been there.) So the calling from God to be your pastor is really? Im fine with paying staff, pastors, etc, but dont insist theres a New Testament mandate for the paid career program we see. I believe they will be held accountable. All of which probably sounds more dismissive than I mean it to. Whats up with this? I think that people are more comfortable with Jesus loves me (a song) than they are with keep my commandments (a direct quote from the mouth of Jesus) and some folks find it easy to play the two off against each other in order to avoid whatever they want to avoid and take advantage of whatever they want to take advantage of. MBC deserves a full time pastor. You have an actual job with many other responsibilities. AMEN! I use Word, revelation, and proclamation almost inter-changeably. @ Gram3: Im all over the continuum insofar as views go. No liberal lefty here, in fact, not really political at all, but as someone who is a full bore Christian, has published in the field of taxation and done research into nonprofit organizations, I think its high time we close the loophole as well for any 501(c)(3) that does not truly function as a charitable nonprofit organization.God wrote: Given my personal state, thats not exactly comforting! I mean, they were so mad I have no doubt theyre trying to find me. According to SBC This Weekhe is only going to teach (give sermons) and will not do anything else in the church. We ought to consider again what we are putting on the LORDs table and to who we are accountable: the hungry souls, and the One who blesses, breaks, and gives. I wrote to one FIEC church elder who stocks books by Mahaney and he fobbed me off with I am busy at the moment I will look as time permits and that was over a year ago. Exodus 40 10-17 we see that God appointed Aaron as spokesman for Moses. Stetzerwrote an article for Christianity Today about Platt's new position. I do believe the quickest way to clean up the Body is STOP the clergy/laity divide and go to the all volunteer movement. Sport | BBC - 5 Celebs You Probably Didn't Know had Speech Problems He didnt know our names in a 4000 member church. How is that in any way a thing?! At first I chuckled because it seems obvious to me that pastors who should know the names of those in their congregation. WebSpeech disorders affect roughly 11.5% of the US population, and 5% of the primary school population. (PS: We would like to know how many of Ed Stetzer church plants survived.It's a little hard to get that number). Standing up on a stage, being the only voice heard in a comfortably organised setting where everyone is explicitly there to hear you speak, is among the most seductively intoxicating pleasures anywhere in this life. Definitions are all changing under our feet (the boundary markers are being moved). And, I dont see church life as being an effective way to keep theologians from getting off-track. Hmmmis there NO one in the UK and/or Ireland who can speak at the FIEC Leaders Conference that an American has to be imported? I grew up Church of Christ however; denominations mean nothing to me. We do not build service upon ministering unto others created things cannot be our motivation. There were no condolences from the church, nothing. Which is why (for me anyway) labels behave more like a fluid than a solid. We do exactly what He said not to do, excusing it with the idea we are contextualizing it for today or that today is different than Bible times, and then get our panties in a wad when things go badly. These friendships take years to cultivate. Or mainly? He is doing exactly this! On August 27, 2014, Platt spoke with Baptist media representatives in a telephone press conference: Brandon Pickett of Virginia asked Platt about taking full-time role as the president of the IMB and transitioning out as a pastor., Im going to preach at Brook Hills for the next three Sundays.after I finish preaching at Brook Hills.my full energies will shift to full-on IMB.Sept. A scripted life is not freedom. God. I wonder specifically how the dream (that moves one to tears of longing) and the deep sense of calling differ. Once the new pastor arrived, it quickly went Neo-Cal. And its the craziest thing ever. Do you think Platt is making a permanent transition here? My concordance doesnt include an entry for paid pastor. No disrespect to the multitude of honest, hard working real pastors who labor faithfully, week in and week out in normal churches with an average of 100-200 in attendance each week. Well, I think its clear what the problem is. I came across the Disasko reference here. Good chance David Platt will not write much of those sermons. While some people think that Jimmy sounds like he could be deaf for some reason, many others think he has the hottest voice ever. And I pray this broadcast will help you do just that. In the United States, theres a reason for that, and it has to do with income taxes. I suggest you spend some time in your 10 hours of studying Gods word to review what is involved in being a pastor. And thats okay too. At the time he was the youngest megachurch pastor in the United States. This gets dicey when one looks at Jesus own descriptions of the judgment, with Himself as the judge, and He spells out what people whom He knows look like in their behavior. Moses and Joshua ministered unto the LORD; Samuel was ministering unto the LORD (trimming the lamps); Paul and Barnabas were ministering unto the LORD when the Spirit separated them unto Himself (Acts 13:2). We minister unto the LORD. Many dont. Zechzav wrote: What does any of this have to do with God? So, again, how is this guy spending 20-25 hours a week on a sermon? In the year I have attended MBC, I have NEVER known a single person sitting next to me at service. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: think of how useful the church facility could be to the community instead of sitting closed up 96% of the week. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. @ Mandavilla: Then have an affair and take a sabatical for recovery purposes while your church still pays you. My friend tells me that people were really starting to grumble about that. I called the church to make the funeral arrangements and notify the pastor. I cant help but wonder if Lon was pushed out. . Things are broken all over. He is doing exactly this! In what respects? It has less than half the members and attendance it had when he came. Find a church in which the pastor knows you name and truly cares about you-not an abstract you who is just a part of a mass of faces. This is made up of churches that left the Churchn of Scotland over homosexual ordination/ marriage etc and other churches that either are or became independent within the Gospel Partnership group. Cue the choking voice and near tears as he passionately tells his church of all the Nepalese dying without hearing the Gospel. Its because, not so deep down, they know that they themselves are no more than bloggers; the only difference being that they read some of their blog posts out to an audience on a Sunday morning. One could have successful ministry (cast out demons, heal, & build numerical flocks), yet be told to depart for He never knew you (Matt. Its the most important part of the Baptist church, in the eyes of many. They say they study and write sermons for 20-25 hours a week. Please, I prepped lesson plans for 6 math classes per day (4 different grade levels) in way, way, way less time than that! Mahaney.) That is it. And yes very sad. We could show them how to have a relationship with God by being preoccupied with that, ourselves separated unto Him. Theyve got control of enough income streams, they can make what seems like a selfless move and still get paid while taking strategic control. Was Peter a pastor to these souls or just a talking head? Platt is a proven winner especially among a certain psychographic and he is a young man who can be in the pulpit for many years at MBC. What is Jesus gospel? The pastor has stated he spends 15 20 hours a week preparing his sermonbut in reading the comments above about how pastors will say that but just copy & paste other people I just found a sermon by MacArthur on Psalm 19 and it sounded exactly like the sermon my pastor preached a few weeks ago on Psalm 19. Of course, we are to do stuff, but the text never says we are to do witnessing as if it is apart from who we are. Hes doing well. Both Mark Driscoll and Matt Chandler at one time were spokesmen for Docent a company you pay to research and write sermons for you. Not a clue. I would put those other elements that you mentioned at the center, and leave the weekly preach as an option. 7). There is no such thing as a teaching pastor in scripture. Problem is Jesus shepherded in another fashion and ran off when people wanted him to be a celebrity. Could you quote me some specific passages on that? This feeding of the flock is via the Word of God and given out with a piece of oneself. He never chided believers to get out there, knock on doors, join me on mission, serve your community, hand out water bottles at marathons, plant a community garden. I do think ministry of the Word takes precedence over pastoral care. @Richard- MBC@ Richard Norman: It looks like he is staying on. Based on social media, not everyone is excited about it. Or is FIEC the T4G/TGC/9Marks beachhead in the kingdom? Ive never seen this in scripture. Human nature says yes. Personally, this is sad because we have a long-ago connection to McLean Bible. To understand him better, read his book Radical. I have not seen any statistics about what percentage of whom want what, but I too have seen behind the curtain, but it is the curtain not of some organization but rather the curtain behind which lurk the professionally religious, and I want none of the like messing with my life/ family/ ideas or whatever. I was really moved. The suffering of self-sacrifice in this tent of meeting will produce the godly character necessary for ministry unto the LORD, and then unto others. If he recognizes a familiar face, he has a short chat. Learn from the Primitive Baptists and early Holiness folks (not todays clergy model) and early Quakers (not todays nonChristian version.). I was shocked when I saw a Facebook post about MBC being affiliated with the Southern Baptists. If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. Anyone who claims the title of lead pastor or head pastor is usurping Jesus authority in the lives of believers. Take this opportunity to tell these supposed *pastors* what you think a pastor should be. If we would just let God be God, He would draw all men unto Himself. The pastor did show for the funeral, but came with an understudy (seminary student?). It is not a place where 1 man is in charge. Nice to hear that I wasnt the only one to notice this and it wasnt just my imagination. I look forward to further comments if you are so inclined, Seulement vous, Jsus peut montrer cette vision de lhomme aveugle! (1)), Spy So disheartening. OK, Dont let the door hit your tutu on the way out! Seriously, is this Hollywood or the church of Jesus Christ? Last Thursday night, my church hosted a community hearing about a city street-widening project in the immediate area which affected them among others. I tried real hard to laugh about it. @ Arnold Smartarse: LOL at Dee telling Deb to check her text messages. Same here. The Nepalese believers dont seek expenses-paid work jollies or international trips, or book deals. You could pull a gateway and just pipe them in. Reminds me of our former YRR pastor who told us he didnt come here just to serve, serve, serve all the time! Still scratching my head over that one! Now we have Didasko. As I wrote last night, the trend over the last 20 years (and especially the last 10 years) has been consolidation of power around Mohler and Mohler loyalists with the only doctrinal essentials being Authoritarianism (meaning loyalty to whatever they say) and Complementarianism. Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. I cannot question it if its really Gods call for him. Id love a sabbatical too. He needed to do so because he gets a good salary from the IMB. He said Bill, this is Christs body, broken for you. I have NEVER had anyone do that in communion before. I met a lady online and we agreed to meet at McLean Bible Church, where she attended, for their morning service and then have lunch afterward. McLean has gradually lost the credibility it once had back in the 80s and 90s. As does a real paster, of course. I will be very interested to see how long this lasts. Interesting, I always thought Platt was the dullard they sent on errands when they talked about the secret stuff. Nonprofits are one of my fields of research. . Then I had to remember all the sermons I had listend to and how deeply moved I was by his heart for Missions and Jesus. Apparently this post is getting a lot of play out there. At least theyre coming to understand that, whilst its relatively simple to join something, belonging is more complex. Seminary professor. Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. stroke. We should be supporting not admonishing! That kind of New Testament model? And because we are made in Gods image and likeness, its not good for us to be alone. @ Nick Bulbeck: But there were no other pastors. But there were no other pastors. but Pastor is certainly not it. But I experienced him as my (now former) pastor and while he may be a great speaker, he is not a good pastor. Small fellowships are well and good, but you darn well better get your fanny in a seat to hear the pastor preach on a regular basis, or else youre doin it wrong. I dont believe there is invested (maybe you meant vested?) As a Christian of many years, Christ feeds me in many ways, in many places. I dont believe providing free spaces to commercial growers and businesses should be considered a community service. I think that Platt has a good point. I can see how this could be the cast for new converts, in the same way that newborns depend on the pre-digested proteins of milk. Spy He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). I also think its something all Christians should aspire toward, though I do believe all Christians are equal priests in a priesthood lead by Jesus. But I could be mis-understanding you. I am surprised the IMB would go for this. one head person to be the primary teacher and CEO of a fellowship, big or small, to whom all, if push comes to shove, must ultimately submit. If it is only value-added, the world will view us as self-interested and just another organization of created things bent in upon itself. I can see how this could be the cast for new converts, in the same way that newborns depend on the pre-digested proteins of milk. Its all part of the business. So if someone says they want a handholding pastor rather than someone preaching the truth of the Word, we can accept that. Next, improvements in distribution will enable more people to have access to the bread: more markets and bigger market-share. Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. The ironic thing is that the 9Marx pastor in the town of Fujairah (a smaller town on the east coast of the UAE) wrote an article that was published on the 9Marx website that was bemoaning the fact that there are too many missionaries. David said, Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. In the tabernacle was a table with showbread and a candlestick. Personally collecting and sending funds from one local body of believers to a non-local body of believers who were in need? He and his wife have 7 children. Its absurd on its face, its not true. Yes, sometimes. Despite endlessly checking the classpath variable in bash_profile, and umpteen different variations thereon, I couldnt get a test file to run (it took long enough to get it to compile). That changed to an affiliation with an American Presbyterian group then that disappeared and the West Of Scotland Gospel Partnership arrived. And it did help him escape that radical existence he taught. Why would the love of God mean that we were created to merely be lap dogs good for nothing more than some sort of warm fuzzy feeling. For whatever reason they didnt feel comfortable mixing with the common folk. Extremely astute comment, and I agree 100%. * But that is in keeping with his I sacrifice and live in the bad part of town for the gospel even though I travel all the time and so only my family really has to endure living there from day to day.. Therefore, the playing field needed to be levelized by having the church comply with certain business ordinances. Im not so sure God is so worried about all our acronyms..SBC, IMB, etc Is not our mission unity in love Making disciples, preaching the word to all nations? Maybe I did not put it across very well and I certainly agree with you about the importance of the two great commandments. for those working normal jobs in the community. Im a firm believer in Capital Punishment. only 1 church in my town would let me hold a musical recital at their facility. Its a fair question. Worship is the response to a revelation of Who God is. Got a bit lively, but no legal or 501c3 problems. But the church leaders who are in bed with the Gospel Coalition and selling books by Mahaney himself, or DeYoung, Carson, Piper and the others really should know better. PHD student. I hear you. https://fiec.org.uk/events/event/leaders-conference-2017. I dont have a problem with the word pastor being used for clergy. Sometimes, the flock is so tired and exhausted that it goes for a happy meal or a snippet. Then they purchased the Wildlife Federation building and mega-sized the already mega church. (That may be why they havent pushed us too hard to sign the old one. These Neo-Cal guys act like they have answers for everything; they are the new wave, the latest and greatest. I had no idea who David Platt was two months ago, until I started listening to his sermons. Many today are flocking to leadership seminars in order to learn how to fish from successful fishermen sociological pragmatism, pop psychology, new models of ministry, and ad nausea. Second thought is the IMB Presidency is a full-time job which God also called him to and God is not as flakey as David Platt appears to be. Podcast in Person reminds me of the scary movie. I am saddened that you have heard nothing new from the pulpit in years. Im sick of that garbage, especially as used by people like Platt, because that great calling they love to reference is code for My calling is bigger than yours, and if you plebes dont submit, youre against the Lord. See how you feel then. Muff, yes, yeppers, yessiree everything has to be done according to the Bible. Who wants a job where you give everything, then the mob can take a vote as to whether you keep your job or not! IMB deserves a full time, fully engaged chief executive. Anyone can listen to Platt on podcasts. @ okrapod: We wouldnt if they said they wanted a pole dancer, a stripper, and free beer. Thats better left to the students he and Piper appeal to at their annual Cross Conference. I hope this clarifies why the preaching of the Word is central. In fact, upon being appointed, Platt actually said, I now see the beauty of the CP. Nor do they ever get any deeper. Dont get me wrong, the Bible is a great and wonderful thing, and as far as holy books go it has no equal. Should it come from the pulpit only? He will be the preaching pastor at McLean. I dont know if they have similar laws in Australia, the churches there appear to have the same penchant for the title. Theyre a kind of corporate lone ranger Christian (as the saying goes), having abandoned assembling together with anyone else locally, albeit trying to find some kind of belonging somewhere. Thanks! If I want to just listen to a sermon I can do that online. I spend 7-10 hours studying Gods word and I am not preparing a sermon. http://www.wadeburleson.org/2017/06/the-southern-baptist-international.html. Even if he mostly avoids distractions from pesky parishioners and students, and mostly recycles and repackages his content, theres still unavoidable meeting time with the church staff who tend the flock, grad assistants who grade the papers, TGC comrades, researchers, editors, publishers etc. Concordance doesnt include an entry for paid pastor there expecting the sheeple to believe them and to talk brought our... Taken a vow of silence rather than someone preaching the truth of the sheep knowing. That stuff out there for moving up in the tabernacle was a table with showbread and candlestick! And i certainly agree with you about the secret stuff over the continuum insofar as views go so because gets. God and given out with a piece of oneself why the preaching of the Word takes precedence over pastoral.. Made in Gods image and likeness, its not good for us to be?! Less than half the members and attendance it had when he came a handholding pastor rather than preaching. 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